Weight Matters

Leilani Allen is ferociously smart, passionately capable, and intensely funny. She's one of my favorite people in IT.

Among other things, Leilani is a very large woman. It's obvious and she knows it. We spoke at a software conference in Phoenix. As I was interviewing her, I was not content to ignore the issue of her weight. So we had a bold discussion of an issue that many people in business pretend does not exist. My editor was outraged at me and edited out the "fat" questions and Midrange Systems terminated my column shortly afterwards. But it worked out. I made a lasting friendship with Leilani. She is now a private consultant and can be reached at leilani@flash.net.

One on one with Leilani Allen
Published May, 1994

You have to accept that if something is going wrong, you are part of that problem.

If we in Information Technology (IT) spent as much time on team building as we do on tool building, we'd be a lot better off. That's the inescapable conclusion Dr. Leilani Allen, Senior Vice President, Information Technology at PNC Mortgage, who, after confronting the realities of cultural change, is now a true believer in the importance of empowering people for peak performance. As Dr. Allen is discovering, this task much more complicated than the relatively simple work of designing and building information systems.

Based in Vernon Hills, IL, PNC Mortgage is a full-service mortgage banking company. It has approximately 3,300 people in 117 offices in 33 states. The Information Technology staff numbers about 85. To assist her in navigating the cultural changes of teambuilding, Allen called on a number of consultants, coaches, and exercises, all designed to identify individual approaches to negotiating styles and creativity.

The daughter of a military family, Allen lived all over the world, finishing high school in Okinawa, Japan. She earned a doctorate in political science from the University of Connecticut. Her first exposure to computers was as a part-time credit authorizer for Visa credit cards. In short order, she worked for Boole & Babbage and Amdahl in the area of performance measurement. She joined Sears Mortgage in 1991. In late 1993, following the decision of Sears to concentrate on retailing, PNC Bank Corporation of Pittsburgh acquired the mortgage company. She lives in Mundelein, IL.

In a paper you wrote describing the teambuilding journey at PNC Mortgage, you echoed a line that probably every manager has muttered at one time or another: "Why don't they appreciate me?"

Right! [Laughs] "I'm such a good manager; what's the matter with them?" It's an absolutely classic reaction: what are they doing wrong? I now know it's a deeply stupid question.

Why?

First of all, you can't answer it. Second, you're looking in the wrong place. You have to accept that if something is going wrong, you are part of that problem. You can spend the rest of your life pointing fingers at others and saying, "Well, if only you'd change, things would be fixed." You can't change anybody other than yourself, so it's kind of pointless exercise. It might make you feel good to blame others, but it doesn't get the problem resolved.

What if the problem is truly with an employee mismatched to a task?

Sometimes the issue is mindset, skills, or abilities of a particular individual. But you can't take that as a premise. That's the difference.

How has your managerial behavior shifted thanks to this revelation?

One of the things I try specifically to ask after a negotiation or discussion is "Do you consider this a win?" Because often there will be a difference of opinion and we have to work through their views versus my views. I now ask that question more often than not. In the past it would not have occurred to me to ask it at all. As long as I had a win, that was all that counted.

In your teambuilding journey, you employ instruments such as an abbreviated Myers-Briggs Style Questionnaire. This test looks for four combinations of personality: Introversion/Extroversion, Intuition/Sensation. Thinking/Feeling, Judging/Perceiving. Did you take the test?

I did, and I was astounded by the accuracy of my profile. It described me as a builder, aggressively seeing opportunities for change and a belief not in tradition but in playing by my own rules.

Isn't this profile termed the Promethean, after the character in the Greek myths who stole fire from the gods?

Exactly. The Promethean is always in search of enlightenment, regardless of cost.

You also use The Kolbe Conative Index (KCI), a questionnaire that predicts an individual's creative style in four dimensions: Fact Finder, Follow Through, Quick Start, and Implementer. Did any of these terms come in handy?

They still use the Kolbe terms to describe each other. They will say, "Well, that's because you're a Quick Start" or "There's that Fact Finder again." Clearly, the catchiness of the titles and the ability to encapsulate a whole constellation of behaviors using that particular title is a useful device. They never use the Myers-Briggs terms. There is something appealingly neutral about the Kolbe terms.

Is there a downside to the casual use of shorthand such as "Quick Start" or "Judging"?

As opposed to calling people flakes or anal-retentive or the other terms people use? I think people like labels. Assuming that the labels are accurate, I don't see anything wrong with them. Epithets, no, but labels that quickly define the point a speaker is making, fine. '

The Kolbe is a relatively painless questionnaire. Will you ask new hires to take the personality test?

I've thought about that because we are adding another member to my direct reports team. But it's not an easy issue. We can't ask people to take the instrument as a pre-employment issue.

Why?

Because this company does not do psychological testing, and that's how this would be viewed. Now, once the person is on board, I can ask them to do it, and I probably will, because it will be useful to see how they fit relative to the other skillsets.

To the extent all this teambuilding changed you, what has been one impact in the office?

It has made for a less contentious environment. I don't think people are as afraid of me. The sense that others really could not object has, I believe, largely diminished. That's a plus because it not only makes working here more pleasant, but it also encourages people to try out new ideas. And sometimes their ideas are great.

Can you give an example of how processes have improved?

Sure. We had mortgage operations center to convert. The first one went okay from a technical standpoint; not at all okay from a people standpoint. So our president sent the key members of the team a request to prepare a memo that addressed three basic questions: What worked? Where did you get stuck? And What do we need to do differently next time? When the responses came back, there was a high degree of consensus across the team members as to what the problems were and what we needed to do to correct them for the second conversion. As a result, the second conversion went infinitely more smoothly.

What was the basic problem?

We had blindsided ourselves to something that, in retrospect, should have been perfectly obvious. But every one of us missed. Our assumption was that the other data center needed to embrace our systems and our procedures. We phrased the conversion as a technical problem. We ignored the fact that we were rally reengineering the business process, not just doing a conversion. Why are these people coming out from Chicago? What's my new role, How do I fit in?, What is my manager going to be doing? We ignored how a fundamentally different way of doing business created a high level of anxiety. We focused on the task at hand and ignored the premise that an individual's perception is their reality. Perception. As a result, we caused a great deal of needless anxiety that complicated the conversion.

One of the outcomes of this process is that team members get a lot more information about their manager. This makes the boss more vulnerable. Is this a positive outcome?

I truly believe it is beneficial for leaders to have the people know as much about them as they possibly can. The more difficult the task you set in front on somebody, the more they have to be confident that you are doing it for the right reason, that you have thought through the challenge, that you have their best interests at heart. You can't do that with a stranger. The more they know about you, the more likely they are to accept that task and perform.

What have your learned in teambuilding that can be applied to managing software vendors?

The model that we in the industry still have in working with suppliers is an adversarial model. That has to change. We are working with a vendor now that has a piece of software that may be a critical element in our client-server strategy. After we satisfied ourselves that the product is sound, I wanted to know what kind of people they were because we were going to work together for a long time. If that relationship can't work, then product aside, we're not buying. Five years ago I would never have evaluated a vendor on that basis. It's not just buying a product anymore. The product is malleable; it's the business relationships that have to click. Suppliers today become team members. They are going to contribute--one way or another--to the ultimate solution. I need to know whether I want them on my team or not.

What's more important to you, truth or comfort?

I'll take truth every time. There are obviously lots of things I am not thrilled to hear, but ignoring the truth does not make it go away.

I'd like to end with a few questions about your weight. It's somewhat of a taboo to speak of such personal matters in a business setting. Does the issue of your weight ever come up?

It has not. As far as I'm concerned, that's they way it should be. If I were a fashion model, then obviously my weight would materially contribute to my ability to do the job. It's hard for me to see how it is a factor in most business jobs. If it's not a factor then it shouldn't be an issue and if it's not an issue, it shouldn't even come up.

But in this society, a person's weight, whether it's acknowledged or not, is an issue. Discrimination against fat people in business is well documented.

Yes, but it hasn't hampered my career. That may simply be because of the discipline we're in. We are a meritocracy in IT. We worship competency. That's one of the best things about working in this profession.

Your competence is so clear, it trivializes everything else. But what if you were simply an average contributor? Are you so sure the issue would not factor in more obviously?

That's an interesting point. If I were just average in capabilities would my weight be more of a factor? Maybe. I don't know. Clearly there are people who suffer discrimination because of their weight. There's no question about that. Maybe you are an easier target if your are not demonstrably capable of doing the job. Anyway, it's probably more my gender than my size that would be the issue.

Explain, please?

There are so few women who do what I do at this level. While there are a fair number of overweight people at my level, I'm very much the exception as a woman.

Is there an upside to being overweight?

Sometimes I think that if I were more conventionally beautiful, it would have been more of a hindrance to my career. Maybe this is utter rationalization, but I know that I didn't get anywhere on my looks. Unfortunately, most women still can't say that, and that's too bad. It makes me feel good that I really have been evaluated and rewarded on the basis of my capabilities. I can say that and say it truthfully and I don't know anyone who would challenge it.

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